Machanics of stealth?

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:51 pm

I was curious about one aspect of stealth. Suppose my PC is in stealth mode, but someone makes their spot check and sees him. How can my PC hide again from that person?

A) leave stealth mode, and then re-enter it? This time lets assume the roll was more favourable, and he wasn't spotted? BTW, how often is the hide/ms check made? Once per round, just OnPerceived, other?

B) or suppose my PC remained in stealth mode, but just walked out of line of sight, e.g. behind a building. Is that sufficient to regain "hidden" status? Is it just "line of sight" that is important? What if it was the move silent check that failed?

C) something else?

Sorry, if this is obvious stuff, never really played a stealth character before.

Thanks.

Serineth Swiftpaw · Post by **Serineth Swiftpaw** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:03 pm

Yeah, you just need to go out of visual range again, audible doesn't matter. You don't need to restealth either.

Naieth · Post by **Naieth** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:16 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:Sorry, if this is obvious stuff, never really played a stealth character before.

*learns from this thread too*

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:39 pm

Spot check made every round or 6 seconds. Its your Hide Vs their spot + 1d20. So for undetectable stealth you need your hide/Ms to be 20 points above their Spot/listen.

You have to run out of line of sight which is quite fun and an art in itself. Unless you have hips in which case if spotted you can go out and come back in, forcing them to make their spot check again....BUT this is considered REALLY bad practise so i wouldnt practise this.

AFAIK thats about all their is.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:53 pm

Thanks for the info so far.

What about Move Silently, surely you have to make both Hide vs Spot AND Move Silently vs Listen to be undectected?

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:56 pm

Its your Hide Vs their spot + 1d20. So for undetectable stealth you need your hide/Ms to be 20 points above their Spot/listen.

Said that already

Hide Vs Spot + 1d20
Move Silently Vs Listen + 1d20

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:00 pm

Talwin Hawkins wrote:
Its your Hide Vs their spot + 1d20. So for undetectable stealth you need your hide/Ms to be 20 points above their Spot/listen.
Said that already

Hide Vs Spot + 1d20
Move Silently Vs Listen + 1d20

Yes you did. Don't know how I didn't SPOT that, I guess you must have done a stealth post

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:06 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:
Talwin Hawkins wrote:
Its your Hide Vs their spot + 1d20. So for undetectable stealth you need your hide/Ms to be 20 points above their Spot/listen.
Said that already

Hide Vs Spot + 1d20
Move Silently Vs Listen + 1d20
Yes you did. Don't know how I didn't SPOT that, I guess you must have done a stealth post

*Groans*

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:12 pm

And ... (I know this is mentioned somewhere, but I couldn't find it)... if I spot someone, then I can see there avatar fully solid. But if I only hear someone, then there avatar is only partially solid (translucent / semi-transparent?).

From past experience (when I used to play a mage), if I only hear someone I can not target them with spells is that right? Been a long time since I did that. My current main main PC just used to close ranks and whack someone that he couldn't see (only hear) and that seemed to work quite well

. But my new main PC is a ranged specialist, will he be able to target things that he can only hear (ie. that appear semi-solid)?

xxquatxx · Post by **xxquatxx** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:14 pm

one thing I'd like to know

Hide Vs Spot + 1d20
Move Silently Vs Listen + 1d20

does this mean only the spotting/listening char gets the 1d20 to their check?

or do you mean

Hide + 1d20 Vs spot + 2d20
Move Silently + 1d20 Vs Listen + 1d20

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:15 pm

You could target someone who is only semi solid, as long as they are set to hostile. most spells wont work on non hostile Pcs. And yes you can target someone with a bow if you can hear them.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:16 pm

One other thing on the listen / move silently skill. From experience it appears to have range bonus/penalty or something. By that I mean, that when I am close (eg. within 5m) I can sometimes hear them, but if they are further away I stand little chance of hearing them.

EDIT: This makes perfect sense given laws of physics, etc. I just wondered what the actual rule / formula was?

I've only got a few points in Listen at the moment.

Thanks.

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:16 pm

xxquatxx wrote:one thing I'd like to know

Hide Vs Spot + 1d20
Move Silently Vs Listen + 1d20
does this mean only the spotting/listening char gets the 1d20 to their check?

or do you mean

Hide + 1d20 Vs spot + 2d20
Move Silently + 1d20 Vs Listen + 1d20

Nope only spot listen get the d20 which imho sucks fucking ass.

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:20 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:One other thing on the listen / move silently skill. From experience it appears to have range bonus/penalty or something. By that I mean, that when I am close (eg. within 5m) I can sometimes hear them, but if they are further away I stand little chance of hearing them.

EDIT: This makes perfect sense given laws of physics, etc. I just wondered what the actual rule / formula was?

I've only got a few points in Listen at the moment.

Thanks.

Not sure about the closeness thing. Supposedly if a player moves then they get a -5 penalty to move silently.....AFAIK. it starts getting complicated when you start taking into acount things like,

"if you are in an external light source, ie "ring of scholar" you get a -5 penalty to hide, and things like a rangers racial bonuses. I also think it is a little buggy somtimes as i have been seen by a player whos spot + a natural 20 was still way below my hide, *shrugs*. But on the whole its pretty good.

A little advice as well. if you are starting a new character i would advise listen instead of spot as MS items are MUCH harder to get than hide items, therefore on the whole peoples hide is much higher than their spot.

Gurky_Bogglewig · Post by **Gurky_Bogglewig** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:24 pm

Serineth Swiftpaw wrote:Yeah, you just need to go out of visual range again, audible doesn't matter. You don't need to restealth either.

When we played that PvP Fight Club module during the Great Avlis Drought of 2005, one of the PCs was a stealther god.

I tell ya, I thought it had HiPS, but they player assured is it didn't, and just broke out of our field of view.

It's an art, it seems.

Serineth Swiftpaw · Post by **Serineth Swiftpaw** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:25 pm

Talwin Hawkins wrote:
xxquatxx wrote:one thing I'd like to know

Hide Vs Spot + 1d20
Move Silently Vs Listen + 1d20
does this mean only the spotting/listening char gets the 1d20 to their check?

or do you mean

Hide + 1d20 Vs spot + 2d20
Move Silently + 1d20 Vs Listen + 1d20
Nope only spot listen get the d20 which imho sucks fucking ass.

Both do get D20 added to their modifier.

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:26 pm

Serineth Swiftpaw wrote:
Talwin Hawkins wrote:
xxquatxx wrote:one thing I'd like to know

Hide Vs Spot + 1d20
Move Silently Vs Listen + 1d20
does this mean only the spotting/listening char gets the 1d20 to their check?

or do you mean

Hide + 1d20 Vs spot + 2d20
Move Silently + 1d20 Vs Listen + 1d20
Nope only spot listen get the d20 which imho sucks fucking ass.
Both do get D20 added to their modifier.

Id like to check that but as i said, im not entirley sure, any one else comfirm this?

Reinstag · Post by **Reinstag** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:31 pm

Talwin Hawkins wrote:
xxquatxx wrote:one thing I'd like to know

Hide Vs Spot + 1d20
Move Silently Vs Listen + 1d20
does this mean only the spotting/listening char gets the 1d20 to their check?

or do you mean

Hide + 1d20 Vs spot + 2d20
Move Silently + 1d20 Vs Listen + 1d20
Nope only spot listen get the d20 which imho sucks fucking ass.

No. It is an Opposed Skill check. Opposed skill checks are when Hide PC rolls a D20 and adds his skill while Spot PC rolls a D20 and adds his Spot.

The best place to see this is in the manual under the description of Hide. This is the fisrt skill listed that needs an Opposed check so all other skill descriptions abreviate the process in their description to save printed space.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:33 pm

Talwin Hawkins wrote:A little advice as well. if you are starting a new character i would advise listen instead of spot as MS items are MUCH harder to get than hide items, therefore on the whole peoples hide is much higher than their spot.

I always go for listen anyway: Gnomes get +2 listen, good for detecting things around corners (and out of line of sight), good for detecting invisible things.

I've always found it most useful, even for my plate-wearing melee fighter.

Leo's tactic against invisible things: Run to where I last saw them visible, or where I think they are, wander around a bit until I bump into them or get close enough to hear them, then whack them until they die. Hardly subtle I know, but very effective, particularly as a lot of NPC mages seem to cast invis and then stand still whilst buffing or whatever.

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:57 pm

Talwin Hawkins wrote:You could target someone who is only semi solid, as long as they are set to hostile. most spells wont work on non hostile Pcs. And yes you can target someone with a bow if you can hear them.

You can't target with spells creatures you only can hear, as Dirk said above.

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:02 pm

mortzestus wrote:
Talwin Hawkins wrote:You could target someone who is only semi solid, as long as they are set to hostile. most spells wont work on non hostile Pcs. And yes you can target someone with a bow if you can hear them.
You can't target with spells creatures you only can hear, as Dirk said above.

that sucks.

mortzestus · Post by **mortzestus** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:11 pm

AoE spells still will work like a charm but spells that require a target (magic missile, finger of death or whatever) can't be cast. Sometimes i've had to ask my party members to go out of stealth to cast a few buffs because even though i could hear them and knew where they were, i still couldn't target them.

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:14 pm

Invisible creatures still leave footsteps...

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:16 pm

Starslayer_D wrote:Invisible creatures still leave footsteps...

You mean the little puffs of dust that you get when they walk? Often wondered about that, but I have from time to time seen phantom footsteps, i.e. I see a puff of dust, but nobody is there (See Invis, or simply walk over the spot where the dust is).

storminj · Post by **storminj** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:55 pm

Talwin Hawkins wrote: You have to run out of line of sight which is quite fun and an art in itself. Unless you have hips in which case if spotted you can go out and come back in, forcing them to make their spot check again....BUT this is considered REALLY bad practise so i wouldnt practise this.

This is not true. You can exit and re-enter stealth using hips and it is not considered bad form. What is considered bad form is doing this in combat by spamming quick buttons in succession while not changing positions. Basically fighting someone by standing in the same spot, spamming unattack and stealth, and then attacking again. It is ok to HIPs, reposition, and then attack again.

In PnP you can do this too. The thing is you have to realize they see you. now if someone yells "hey look a elf in m'chek" while your are indeed a elf SD in stealth mode you would say to yourself "hmm... I better do something quick to lose these fekkers" and you would do some fancy shadow manuver to rehide. Since the game mechanics are limited you do not see this fancy shadow manuver just them come into veiw and fade.

The World of Avlis

Machanics of stealth?

Machanics of stealth?

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