Understanding Gear - Stackability and Enchantments

[Eponine]

I just found out (by wasting a lot of my destitute character's gold) about how items can have their magic effects stack or not stack.

I read the manuals that came with NWN and I googled around and found this... Does it Stack and read all four parts of it but am still really confused.

Is there a better reference (other than searching forums here and on NWN) that explains gear and item effects - especially how to mix and match gear? I am also confused by the relative value of different enchantments (for example are boots with a reflex save better than boots with fortitude, or is a cloak with +12 spell resist better than a cloak with +1 AC). I understand these things are not directly comparable but how do you learn to weigh the relative value?

Is most of this knowlege just gleaned from a lot of reading and playing or is it spelled out on any sites you all could recommend. I don't really care that much from a powergaming standpoint - I just want to make sure I don't keep buying useless combinations of items as I start to outfit her.

[Nitro18]

Experience with different item combinations is the best teacher when it comes to outfitting your character.

Honestly, I'd recommend playing through all of the original NWN campaigns if you haven't already. It'll give you a good taste of a wide variety of magical gear (quite a bit of uber-loot that you won't find on Avlis). Magic in those campaigns is fairly abundant, so if you screw up and buy something you don't really need it's not such a big deal.

If you have any specific rule-related questions, the IRC channel is usually your best bet. You can get answers quick from a variety of knowledgeable Avlis people.

[apandapion]

I just found out (by wasting a lot of my destitute character's gold) about how items can have their magic effects stack or not stack.

I read the manuals that came with NWN and I googled around and found this... Does it Stack and read all four parts of it but am still really confused.

Is there a better reference (other than searching forums here and on NWN) that explains gear and item effects - especially how to mix and match gear? I am also confused by the relative value of different enchantments (for example are boots with a reflex save better than boots with fortitude, or is a cloak with +12 spell resist better than a cloak with +1 AC). I understand these things are not directly comparable but how do you learn to weigh the relative value?

Is most of this knowlege just gleaned from a lot of reading and playing or is it spelled out on any sites you all could recommend. I don't really care that much from a powergaming standpoint - I just want to make sure I don't keep buying useless combinations of items as I start to outfit her.

Short answers off the top of my head:

Save bonuses are most important in the areas that your character is weak in. If you have to choose between a ring that boosts your fort save, a ring that boosts your will save, or a ring that boosts your reflex save, start by taking off all of your gear and seeing what your fort, reflex, and will saves are. Generally you will want to improve your worst area, but not always.

As for spell resistance, I don't *think* that spell resistance stacks in any form. For instance, if you have spell resistance as a monk, any item that provides lesser spell resistance is useless. I imagine your spell resistance item is actually "12 spell resistance" instead of "+12 spell resistance".

I believe the caster level check to overcome spell resistance is "d20 + caster level", so 12 spell resistance will bounce weaker spells quite often but will be overrun by many serious casters.

When it comes to AC, at least at low levels, the magic number is "20". A creature with no base attack bonus will hit a character with AC 20 only 1/20th of the time. If you want to be a contender in melee, crossing that 20 number within your first couple of levels is almost a must.

I think almost everybody makes these kinds of mistakes every now and then... I would consider myself proficient with these issues, yet I accepted as a gift an amulet with a +1 natural armor bonus (which my barkskin *always* overwrites.)

[Joegle]

There must have been some kind of value inherent to certain properties in the original campaigns. If I ever had two pieces of kit, found as loot, that I couldn't see an awful lot of difference between I'd usually keep the one that a merchant would offer me most money for because the AI "thought" it was better. You could probably replicate this by knocking stuff up in the toolset and seeing what the value is. (not that much experience of the toolset so if I'm wrong sorry)

It's all arbitrary though because you should get a feel for what your character would need to make must use of, and if you've got an idea of what you're likely to face soon, boosting the opposing save NOW is obviously the best choice.

[Midknight]

First off, if the bonus is describe in any terms other than just "bonus" (for example, Natural AC bonus, or Deflection AC bonus), they will not stack with one another. So two rings of protection +1 (both Deflection AC) will not stack.

Likewise, benefits from the same spells will not stack.

In additon, Spell Resistance is not cumulative.

When you have two bonuses that stack, the better one always applies first. So if you have a ring of protection +2 and a ring of protection +1 equipped, only the +2 bonus applies.

I understand these things are not directly comparable but how do you learn to weigh the relative value?

Frankly, it's tough to say - what's value? If you're talking about an overall "worth", then it'll come from...
a) experience playing the game
b) what you need
c) what other people need
d) learning how often it will suceed/fail/be used effectively vs. the investment. This involves learning the mechanics of the game. Here's an example:

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Taking your AC +1 cloak vs. SR 12 cloak... let's look at it this way.

1 more AC means your opponent needs 1 point more on the dice to hit you. This may not sound like much, but every bit counts, and sometimes that 1 point is all you need to push you to the point where you're unhittable by an oppoenent.

Since enemies roll d20 + their attack bonus to hit, if your AC is 20 points above their AB they won't be able to hit you normally - only on a natural 20.

Another way to express it is in percentages. With +1 AC, you basically are 5% less likely to be hit.

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On the other hand, we have SR. To beat Spell Resistance, the caster targeting you needs to make a caster level check. This is:

d20 + caster level vs. level of spell resistance

So, a level 1 mage needs to roll an 11 or higher, roughly lower than 50%.

However, a level 12 mage doesn't need to roll at all - their caster level is already equivalent to your spell resistance, and will beat it no matter what.
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Which ones better? Well, at lower levels the SR 12 cloak is quite handy for stopping enemy magic missiles, which can knock down your HP quite quickly. At higher levels though, it's usefuleness decreases.

On the other hand, the AC cloak makes you 5% harder to hit throughout.

It's up to you.

There must have been some kind of value inherent to certain properties in the original campaigns.

The toolset has these. However, going by these as a guide is rather a poor way to approach things, mainly because some abilities are considered overpriced, while some (i.e. permanent haste) are far, far underpriced.

Secondly, different merchants offer different prices.


Finally, I do recommend you play the single player game. It's relatively easy and a good learning experience. There's several modules you can download online that allow you to make test characters by providing levelups and gear - it's the most painless way to avoid remaking your character a dozen times.

[Eponine]

Thanks for the tips, it helps a lot.

I did play the single user game and finished the first two modules without picking any of this up. I just watched the numbers go by and thought - "how nice".

Thanks again, I will keep reading and learning even if its by trial and a lot of error.

[Nitro18]

If you're thinking about buying something for your character and are unsure of how it'll function, this is a decent tool to use.

http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/modules/da ... 5000.shtml

Export your character from Avlis, then test out the new gear in that module to make sure it'll stack or look pretty or whatever else you want it to do.

Good luck.

[Vergilius]

Is most of this knowlege just gleaned from a lot of reading and playing

Experience is the best teacher. Your build and role in combat will cause your equipment needs to vary.

[Flakey]

Another way is to ask In Game. Many of the experienced players will be happy to spend time (if they have it when you ask), to talk about how you see your character in the future, and advise you what to look for, and wear.

[Eponine]

If you're thinking about buying something for your character and are unsure of how it'll function, this is a decent tool to use.

http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/modules/da ... 5000.shtml

Export your character from Avlis, then test out the new gear in that module to make sure it'll stack or look pretty or whatever else you want it to do.

Good luck.

That seems like an awesome way to learn about gear. Is exporting my Avlis Druid as simple as using the save feature on the emote wand and looking for the .bic file in my NWN directory?

[Serineth Swiftpaw]

Hit O then click "Save Character". You may need to rebuild the module with the Avlis haks though.

[RCon]

That seems like an awesome way to learn about gear. Is exporting my Avlis Druid as simple as using the save feature on the emote wand and looking for the .bic file in my NWN directory?

Even simpler. Use the Save Character button that's on the Options screen ( the one you use to quit NWN ). That will export your character into the local vault.

[Zamael668]

Hit O then click "Save Character". You may need to rebuild the module with the Avlis haks though.

What order do the haks have to be in for the rebuild?

[Beary666]

OK DD DR and Epic DR stack together, but do they stack with say stoneskin?

[Tigg]

OK DD DR and Epic DR stack together, but do they stack with say stoneskin?

No, sadly stoneskin does not stack with class or feat DR's.

[Eponine]

Even simpler. Use the Save Character button that's on the Options screen ( the one you use to quit NWN ). That will export your character into the local vault.

I missed that - thank you.

New question, if an item says...

Use: Barkskin (6) 4 Charges / Use

Does that mean it can be used to cast that spell 4 times then the enchantment is gone or is it 4 uses then when you rest its 4 more? Or is it something else entirely?

[Flakey]

Use: Barkskin (6) 4 Charges / Use

Items that run on charges will list how many charges it has in the description. Many start off with 50, but you can have less.

Every time you use the item, it will reduce the number of charges left. In this case it will use 4 every time. When you have less charges than the number required the item will no longer work, and if it gets reduced to zero will disappear.

[Eponine]

Items that run on charges will list how many charges it has in the description. Many start off with 50, but you can have less.

Every time you use the item, it will reduce the number of charges left. In this case it will use 4 every time. When you have less charges than the number required the item will no longer work, and if it gets reduced to zero will disappear.

Makes sense - can they be recharged?

[Flakey]

A limited number of staffs and wands can be recharged. Find out IG where. Others no, you have the item until its used, then you have to hunt for another.

[Psyco]

OK DD DR and Epic DR stack together, but do they stack with say stoneskin?

No, sadly stoneskin does not stack with class or feat DR's.

wrong.

There are three different types of damage reducing properties.

Damage reduction, damage resistance and damage immunity.

Damage reduction takes the form "10/+5" or "+5 soak 10". This means that as long as whatever is trying to hit you has a weapon that is lower than the + bit, it will ignore the amount of damage listed.

Only 1 damage reduction will take effect on any hit, and it will always choose the best possible to take effect. Eg. if you have two damage reduction properties +1/50 and +5/10, if someone hits you with a mundane non-enchanted weapon 50 points of damage will be ignored. if someone hits you with a +1, +2, +3 or +4 weapon 10 points of damage will be ignored, if someoen hits you with a +5 weapon you will take full damage.

Damage reduction applies to all physical attacks, it does not matter if they are pierce bludg or slashing.

Spells like stoneskin apply a damage reduction effect.

Damage resistance take the form of 10/- but will only be for a specific type of damage. eg 5/- slashing resist, 5/- pierce resist or 5/- fire resist.

Damage resistance of the same type does not stack. but damage resistance for different types do stack. so you can have 5/- resist against slashing and 5/- resist against fire, but you cannot have 5/- slash and 5/- slash to make 10/-.

The exception to this is class or feat based resistance. class or feat based resistance is of a type that applies to all physical damage, and does stack with other feat or class based resistance, as well as any resistance from gear.

damage resistance will always stop the amount of damage shown regardless of the + on the weapon. or source of the damage.



Damage immunity takes the form of 5%. Damage immunity is like damage resistance, it is onyl for specific types of damage and will have no effect on damage of other types. damage immunity also does not care about the + on the weapon.

damage immunity items DO stack out to a max of 100% for any damage type. if you hit 100% then further stacking does not matter as you are immune to that damage type at that point.

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These three types of damage reducing effects all stack with each other.

They are applied immunity first, then resistance, then reduction.

So someone with 50% slash immunity, 20/- slash resist and 10/+5 damage reduction would get hit for the following

100 pts of slashing damage from a +1 item: 20 points of damage
- immunity: takes it to 50 damage
- resistance: drops it to 30 damage
- reduction: drops it to 20 damage

100 pts of slashing damage from a +5 item: 30 points of damage
- immunity: takes it to 50 damage
- resistance: drops it to 30 damage
- reduction: no effect

100 pts of piercing damage from a +1 item: 90 points of damage
- immunity: no effect
- resistance: no effect
- reduction: drops it to 90 damage

100 pts of piercing damage from a +5 item: 100 points of damage
- immunity: no effect
- resistance: no effect
- reduction: no effect

[Tigg]

So if you have 11 DR because of your dwarven defender levels + your epic DR feat, and you also have stoneskin on, it does not take -21 damage, it only takes 11.

[Midknight]

just watched the numbers go by and thought - "how nice".

Remember that in single player you can also slow down the action with pause, or scroll back after the fight is done to try and look at what the rolls looked like.