In The Holy Name of God, I Create Undeath!

Ashby · Post by **Ashby** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:38 am

This little post is about necromancy, well more specificly creating undead. Recently I've been seeing a lot of characters (especially clerics) animating dead and walking around with undead henchmen outside of Mikona...and this kind of upset me because I don't think that's very good RP. (Unless of course your cleric is evil or neutral, in which case this post isn't about you.)

Avlis is a lot like a DND campaign in the sense that NWN is based off DND's combat system and Avlis is a roleplaying server. So it really surprised me to see people bold enough to animate undead and walk around with it because in most campaigns games I've participated in necromancers were feared, hated, and have awful reputations. If word got out that so-and-so was a necromancer the villagers may light their torches and grab their pitch-forks...ya' know what I'm saying?

Secondly, I feel it's a contradiction for a good aligned cleric to say that their god is fine with them turning and summoning undead just whenever they're in a fight. Also, I've encountered people who have said that when they animate undead, the creature becomes an extension of their god's will and they actually have no control over it. I believe that's bad form because at any time the player could unsummon the undead, order it to stop attacking, tell it to start attacking again and so on.

Thirdly, I think my point is doubly made when you just check the summoned undead's alignment. I'm pretty sure it'll come up as chaotic evil even if you're lawful good.

Fourthly, no matter how the player is animating the undead it's unquestionable that dark energy fills the corpse. Why else would a heal spell sting it and a harm spell heal it?

Here's my disclaimer...I'm not insulting any players, I'm simply questioning their RP methods. Also I'm sure a great deal of the people I spoke to in avlis could be evil or neutral aligned and may not care what evil they invoke or what other people think. I'm just posting what I believe to be IC information that most people should know.

Post by **Lycanthropy** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:49 am

Has someone been selling sticks to the owners of long dead horses again?

Very good point, but I think this was covered in the 'Summons Debate', and possibly the 'Rackel Sharpblade Killed my Skeleton' incident. Among others, probably.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, though.

Nightface · Post by **Nightface** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:50 am

Heh heh, the can of worms has been opened again!

Sorry, Ashby, there was a debate that raged for some time a while back. I wish I could point you to it, but I've forgotten the name or what forum it was in. Can anybody help?

Aradan Kir · Post by **Aradan Kir** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:01 am

*Aradan trudges out to the Mikona graveyard in the dead of night. Unslinging his pack from his back he looks around, and seeing no-one else about in the mists and the dark, he proceeds to dig. After many hours toil and sweat, he unearths a huge pile of parchments, from which he shakes the earth. Wrapping the bundle in a ribbon, he addresses it to Ashby and goes in search of a messenger*

viewtopic.php?t=13277

Post by **Lycanthropy** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:05 am

Thankyou Aradan.

Now, fetch me a brain!

Jorio Alerian · Post by **Jorio Alerian** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 1:38 pm

Like so many other issues on Avlis, it remains a personal decision to summons or not. Members of the Order of Gorethar have decided to roleplay that summoning is not part of their faith system. To each their own.

Actually · Post by **Actually** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:08 pm

Some people RP a summons, any summons, to an enormously grandiose level. Some, less so. Some, not at all.

Ultimately, the fun is in the having. One of the great things about Avlis is that it's big enough, geographically and demographically, to allow for all sorts of types of fun. People tend to congregate towards others who RP in a manner similar to, or in concordance with, themselves.

And yay for everybody, while I'm at it.

Bye Now,
Jerry Cornelius - Sunshine, lollipops and... Rainbows, everywhere...

Fuzz · Post by **Fuzz** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:32 pm

Hands Lyc a brain.

I couldn't find the one you wanted, so I got this one instead... it belonged to a man named Abby Normal...

Ashby · Post by **Ashby** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:42 am

Thank you for replying to my post and for giving me that link. I would have posted this on that other topic but I'm not sure if anyone would read it since it's such an old topic.

There's been a lot of attacks on Mikona and other cities I'm sure. Almost every week people can depend on an invasion of zombies and balors; and I'm by no means exaggerating. So what do you believe people will think when they see someone summon an undead pet? It's pretty fair to say that people are going to jump to conclusions ESPECIALLY if the person in question makes one or more trips into the Mikona Crypts.

My question is would that character in question be considered a law-abiding citizen until he actually slays another? Would it be bad form to attack a pet and/or the master those grounds? I would think Lawful types and especially clerics, paladins, druids, and rangers would more than likely be outraged by someone who would do this.

I'm just posting this because I'm tired of getting weird looks whenever my character is outraged by people who associate themselves with blatantly evil aligned creatures. I'm even more tired of people saying "Don't worry, the undead creature serves me." As if I'm supposed to be relieved that I'm in the presence of an undead's lord.

I'm not looking for a reason to beat people up, I'm really not. I'm just trying to find what is the standards for seeing this.

Aradan Kir · Post by **Aradan Kir** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:59 am

Ashby wrote:Thank you for replying to my post and for giving me that link. I would have posted this on that other topic but I'm not sure if anyone would read it since it's such an old topic.

Actually, if you make a post to an old message, it has the effect of bumping it right back to the top. Sometimes this is a good thing, sometimes not. Probably better than creating a new thread about something that's been done to death though.

Did reading through that thread not answer your questions?? I often get distressed when people summon distasteful creatures before me, and will usually speak to the person about it, and politely ask them to unsummon it, unless there is a GREAT need for it at that time. For example, if we are being attacked by a huge number of bandits and a mage is using a skeleton to assist them, I will let it be until after the battle (unlike some others

). However, if they are walking around shopping with a lich in tow (which I have seen), I will not let this lie. So far ... a polite request has worked in 100% of occasions, and I have yet to have to slay someones summoned creature.

Something else to bear in mind (which I sometimes get caught out by), is that although summons may appear evil, and may be creatures that normally attack you on sight, this does not necessarily make them evil. E.G. the Hound Archon looks evil (with it's Hell Hound head, and fiery sword), but it is in fact an angel of sorts. Another thing to consider is that different Citys have different tolerances for summoned creatures. In one it may be illegal for certain summons, in others it may be illegal to attack them.

It also depends on your character's outlook on life - if you hate undead, then a summoned skeleton may be hard to accept. For me, if someone summons a balor, I would be hard pressed to not attack it on sight. Also, if you are fighting undead and someone summons an undead minion to help, you may be forgiven for slaying it in error (although bear in mind that this is how that other thread got started and went to about 7 billion pages!)

Pharik · Post by **Pharik** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:11 am

SHE DID NOT KILL IT IN ERROR!!!!!! (

)

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:14 am

In the previous mega-discussion on summons, there was a slight difference made between summons and familars / companions.

People generally have quite an attactment to familiars / companions, and also a physical one, i.e killing a mage's familar actually damages the mage and so is considered an attack on the mage!

Also, some people do get quite attached to their (dire) animal summons, but I have yet to find anyone quite attached to an undead or planar summon - but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong. (Sees visions of someone shopping for warm cloak and booties to keep their Skeleton Chieften warm in the winter).

How you react to them is entirely up to you. But be warned if you react agressively and attack one which was not being used illegally (check local laws for this) then it is you who is breaking the law, however moral and upstanding you think you might have been.

Aradan Kir · Post by **Aradan Kir** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:31 am

Dirk Cutlass wrote: How you react to them is entirely up to you. But be warned if you react agressively and attack one which was not being used illegally (check local laws for this) then it is you who is breaking the law, however moral and upstanding you think you might have been.

However, if you are a member of the Order of Gorethar, you can just make up whatever laws you want, so this doesn't apply in our case.

PS Thought as we were talking about summons, I'd get an anti-oog post in here too !!

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 12:38 pm

All my elementals and my Balor have names... and had them since ages... like.. last year.
I wonder if that's attachment or not.

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:00 pm

Starslayer_D wrote:All my elementals and my Balor have names... and had them since ages... like.. last year.
I wonder if that's attachment or not.

Yeah - that's just plain weird Star! You're just one step away from buying your Balor a nice sweater for Christmas

Hope you gave your Balor a nice demonic name

Actually, come to think of it I have called my elementals names before...
Ms. Windy (air elemental)
Sparky (fire)
Damn Water Again! (er.. water)

LOL

Aradan Kir · Post by **Aradan Kir** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:16 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:You're just one step away from buying your Balor a nice sweater for Christmas

Tell you what .... I'll be nice and let you take the sweater off before I slay it

PS sorry to be pedantic (ok not really) but wouldn't it have to be made from asbestos?

PPS Of course you can get round this whole "summons" argument by simply killing the mage - as then the summons is unsummoned. Kill two birds with one stone (fekking big sword actually) or something

EDIT : er .. this thread probably ought to be moved. Perhaps to the bin !

Glocknal · Post by **Glocknal** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:20 pm

Have a look at this thread, it pretty much covers everything summoned and rotting. Not much reason to debate it anymore.

viewtopic.php?t=11712&start=0

Glok

Dirk Cutlass · Post by **Dirk Cutlass** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:23 pm

Glocknal wrote:Have a look at this thread, it pretty much covers everything summoned and rotting. Not much reason to debate it anymore.

viewtopic.php?t=11712&start=0

Glok

Yes Glok we know. The thread's is pretty much dead now. The new "Summons Debate" is discussing what to buy our pet Balor for Christmas !

Glocknal · Post by **Glocknal** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:24 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:
Glocknal wrote:Have a look at this thread, it pretty much covers everything summoned and rotting. Not much reason to debate it anymore.

viewtopic.php?t=11712&start=0

Glok
Yes Glok we know. The thread's is pretty much dead now. The new "Summons Debate" is discussing what to buy our pet Balor for Christmas !

How about a Scythe up the arse?? That's always a holiday favorite..

Starslayer_D · Post by **Starslayer_D** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:58 pm

Hehe.. well.. about my balor.. a few people have heard me call it by full summoning rite.. not any, but some.

K'Z'in'Grat'he good enough?
Should at east keep the apostrophe fetishishts happy...

Well, else, we have Ember, Foam, Hailseed.. no earth elemental..

The World of Avlis

In The Holy Name of God, I Create Undeath!

In The Holy Name of God, I Create Undeath!

Just to Clarify...

Re: Just to Clarify...