Are Dev Critting NPCs fun.

Snow · Post by **Snow** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:04 pm

Which mage spell protects from dev.crit anyway?

And yes, Dev.crit sucks

Rain&Clouds · Post by **Rain&Clouds** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:05 pm

Maybe changing your shape to a golem's?

Mothandric · Post by **Mothandric** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:10 pm

Please don't let this be the start of a series of polls such as:

Does (Dev crit/HiPS/IKD/Bigbys/Death magic/ad infinitum) suck?

People will use the abilities they have at their disposal *shrugs*

As soon as the fix for the assassin's death attack goes in we'll probably have polls about whether that sucks too...

Arandil · Post by **Arandil** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:23 pm

Anyway, as far as war spawns go, Mortzetus said he wouldn't be using dev crit spawns again as he doesn't like the feat either...

Rhissaerk Jalesh · Post by **Rhissaerk Jalesh** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:57 pm

Dieing to dev crit has no sense of awe or satisfaction to me. You just die and it's like 'meh'. If I die to a really powerful death spell because the DC is insane, I feel like I died to a powerful mage, or if I die to a 300 damage scythe crit it's usually damn impressive, dev crit just...isn't. The thing feels broken to me. I don't think I'll ever like it, and personally I'd love to see it replaced with a feat that raises the damage of crits instead.

As for representing strong spawns, I can think of plenty of ways to do that without dev crit that are just as terrifying, heheh...

krackq · Post by **krackq** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:59 pm

Dev Crit is great.... but only for specific npcs... it makes the battle with that NPC that much more insane.. even better if you win.

My record is getting dev critted 7 times in the same fight...
Dev crit to the floor... cleric-healed to a stand... dev crit to the floor.. cleric-healed to a stand... repeat...etc.. *shakes fist at a particular area in Deglos*

Wyrmwing · Post by **Wyrmwing** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:03 pm

Rhissaerk Jalesh wrote:I don't think I'll ever like it, and personally I'd love to see it replaced with a feat that raises the damage of crits instead.

Overwhelming critical does that already.. and it is a prerequisite to dev crit if I'm not mistaken.

Rhissaerk Jalesh · Post by **Rhissaerk Jalesh** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:04 pm

Yup, it does. I'd prefer to just see dev crit be either basically overwhelming crit 2 or have it do somthing like raise your crit multiplier like the weaponmaster feat does. That's just me though. *smiles*

apandapion · Post by **apandapion** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:22 pm

Arandil wrote:er..dev crit is almost impossible to protect yourself from, only epics have even a chance, and 95% even of epics will fail a save within round of combat.

Can every character defend themselves from critical hits? No. Is it possible to make a critical immune character? Yes. So recruit someone who can handle it, or don't go. As someone has pointed out, it's doable, and just because someone can't is no reason to dumb down encounters.

Malathyre wrote:My own personal opinion is that insta-death abilities of any kind are teh suck. I just don't like them in my roleplaying games, but that's me. Character life/death or NPC life/death is not something I like seeing come down to an opposed dice roll. This has nothing to do with liking/disliking a challenge, I just don't like insta-death abilities for anyone. It cheapens the experience for me.

High level DnD is packed with instant death spells, and it only takes some dispelling to make almost anyone suceptable to death magic. You'd have to rewrite the whole magic system to remove instant death attacks.

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:27 pm

*looks at poll*

nuff said.

I dont mind PCs having dev crit. why? because it is an epic feat and in a way the pc has had to put in some serious work to get the feat, ignoreing the 1% of massive powergamers.

Nps having fuck me off. There are really really tough equilizers out there on teh warzone for example that kick the shit outta you if your not careful. Me and two others with some great teamwork killed it. I was chuffed in character and out. i was like SHIT how FUCKING COOL WAS THAT! then all of a sudden another one turned up. one hit boom, one hit to friend boom! i was like....errrr, well that was fun.

if i get pwned by a PC, then fine, but a npc with dev crit is absolutley shit. i dont care if its meant to represent anything. its dogshit. if you spawn 6 -8 of them high level bastards i would go...errr lets no go there where getting pwned, but how am i suppose to know that an npc has dev crit untill he kicks your ass??? theres no sign "IVE GOT DEV CRIT DUDE, STAY OUTTA MY WAY!". you just die.

Im still fucked off now. but as the poll suggests im not the only one. makes me feel a little but better.

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:35 pm

This topic came up on the Hala boards not long ago. At least back then, one specific area had warriors with Dev. Crit. and it made even the most powerful of PC's reconsider going there alone.

Personally, I have no problem with a few NPC's with Dev. Crit. There SHOULD be NPC's that are scary for anyone to encounter, especially alone. If you come across one by yourself and you can't handle it, run away! It's an Epic Feat and your facing an Epic Warrior. Come back with friends or develop a sound strategy.

From the sounds of it, these are only being spawned by DM's. I've been pwned by a number of DM spawned creatures: Liches, Dragons, Dire Chickens...I've met a Cow on Hala who could drop Zach in a heartbeat! As long as they are being controlled where they are spawned, then I think they add some spice. As in 'Scary Spice'.

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:37 pm

I love it.

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:40 pm

Question: How do i know im facing an "epic warrior"?

choraldances · Post by **choraldances** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:41 pm

When they hit, and it hurts.

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:48 pm

Talwin Hawkins wrote:Question: How do i know im facing an "epic warrior"?

choraldances wrote:When they hit, and it hurts.

Or when they swing at your friend/summon/familiar etc. and they behead him in one strike.

I'd also say it's pretty fair that if you make a save vs. Devastating Crit., then you probably realized that he/she almost took YOUR head off and you better get outta there.

Melakin Skywieder · Post by **Melakin Skywieder** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:52 pm

Tharliss wrote:This topic came up on the Hala boards not long ago. At least back then, one specific area had warriors with Dev. Crit. and it made even the most powerful of PC's reconsider going there alone.

Personally, I have no problem with a few NPC's with Dev. Crit. There SHOULD be NPC's that are scary for anyone to encounter, especially alone. If you come across one by yourself and you can't handle it, run away! It's an Epic Feat and your facing an Epic Warrior. Come back with friends or develop a sound strategy.

From the sounds of it, these are only being spawned by DM's. I've been pwned by a number of DM spawned creatures: Liches, Dragons, Dire Chickens...I've met a Cow on Hala who could drop Zach in a heartbeat! As long as they are being controlled where they are spawned, then I think they add some spice. As in 'Scary Spice'.

Word

Eponine · Post by **Eponine** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:54 pm

Dev Crit is too powerful - I think only my Druid should have it.

Naieth · Post by **Naieth** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:11 pm

Croton · Post by **Croton** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:20 pm

I think if you compare Death attack to Dev Crit, you get an idea of good verse bad...

Death attack doesn't kill you but you're as good as dead if they want you to be. Allows for RP. Dev Crit does not.

Death attack only works for the first round if the target is not otherwise engaged. Dev Crit works all the time, and with the right weapons, 45% of hits can be Dev Crit.

The saves can both be extremely high, which isn't bad, but because of the above 2 things, the save for Dev Crit is bad because you'll have to succeed multiple times in combat, and you're bound to fail.

Lastly, with the new update coming out you can be immune to Death attack when you're immune to Paralysis, not mind spells. Immune to Paralysis is a spell for some, and not a feature that is banned on equipment, where as immune crit is banned equipment, and there is no spell.

So, in summary, if Dev crit was more like Death attack, it would be better IMO.

Final Shinryuu · Post by **Final Shinryuu** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:31 pm

Tharliss wrote:I've met a Cow on Hala who could drop Zach in a heartbeat!

You mean Moomia? Don't you just love that flying kamikaze cow spell?

Think IGMS, except each magic missile is a flying demonic flaming cow, and hits for exactly 50 damage, no save, no resistances.

Join the cult of Moomia, Supreme Bovine Deity, today!

Tharliss · Post by **Tharliss** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:34 pm

Final Shinryuu wrote:
Tharliss wrote:I've met a Cow on Hala who could drop Zach in a heartbeat!
You mean Moomia? Don't you just love that flying kamikaze cow spell?
Think IGMS, except each magic missile is a flying demonic flaming cow, and hits for exactly 50 damage, no save, no resistances.

Join the cult of Moomia, Supreme Bovine Deity, today!

*shudders at his desk at the mention of Moomia*

I still...have...nightmares...

Moredo · Post by **Moredo** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:37 pm

Talwin Hawkins wrote:*looks at poll*

nuff said.

I dont mind PCs having dev crit. why? because it is an epic feat and in a way the pc has had to put in some serious work to get the feat, ignoreing the 1% of massive powergamers.

Nps having fuck me off. There are really really tough equilizers out there on teh warzone for example that kick the shit outta you if your not careful. Me and two others with some great teamwork killed it. I was chuffed in character and out. i was like SHIT how FUCKING COOL WAS THAT! then all of a sudden another one turned up. one hit boom, one hit to friend boom! i was like....errrr, well that was fun.

if i get pwned by a PC, then fine, but a npc with dev crit is absolutley shit. i dont care if its meant to represent anything. its dogshit. if you spawn 6 -8 of them high level bastards i would go...errr lets no go there where getting pwned, but how am i suppose to know that an npc has dev crit untill he kicks your ass??? theres no sign "IVE GOT DEV CRIT DUDE, STAY OUTTA MY WAY!". you just die.

Im still fucked off now. but as the poll suggests im not the only one. makes me feel a little but better.

Not to put you down or anything like that, but posting a complicated question like that with a simple Yes/No answer seems pretty silly. DEVACRITZ is a feat, that in my opinion sucks, because it is not balanced with the setting CoPaP has.

So yeah, NPC's with dev. crits. suck, PC's with dev. crit. suck. That is what you got an answer too. Not exactly news, eh?

The point is; If you go to Blandenberg and openly attack, you *will* die. It's a plot heavy location, which the M'Chek army as put thousands of troops in for now.

So, basically, if you run into a dwarf merc spawn that dev. crits. you, I'll be right beside you complaining. But this is something designed by the war DM's as a part of the war plot, and thats a whole different type of setting.

Talwin Hawkins · Post by **Talwin Hawkins** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:47 pm

this wasnt a rant thread. this was an opinion poll.

and someone said about if you save once then get outta there as he nearly took your head off, well the save on that npc was 33. with a natural 20 i could get 28.

Snow · Post by **Snow** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:33 pm

Please... enough with the complaining already. If you feel griefed by what happened (wasn't there when it happened so can't really say) use staff@avlis.org

aldo ixnay · Post by **aldo ixnay** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:10 pm

krackq wrote:Dev Crit is great.... but only for specific npcs... it makes the battle with that NPC that much more insane.. even better if you win.

My record is getting dev critted 7 times in the same fight...
Dev crit to the floor... cleric-healed to a stand... dev crit to the floor.. cleric-healed to a stand... repeat...etc.. *shakes fist at a particular area in Deglos*

I was present at this fight and I was also dev critted twice and you know what I thought it was great... I think it is perfectly realistic for some towering Fire Giant to bring a Huge Dual Bladed axe down on Celedor's puny elven body with enough force and trauma to drop me to the ground to the brink of death in one shot.