The World of Avlis

hi,
curious if there is a general standard on certain 'saves' versus skill checks? that is, assuming I am willing in participating when someone rolls a bluff, persuade, or intimidate on me... what would I generally roll.. a will save? from the game engine standpoint that seems kind of off since skills usually oppose skills, and skills can go up faster and generally get much higher than a save. also, it seems like, for instance, i'd think a fighter would be better than many other classes at resisting intimidate (though less so at bluff/persuade) even though their will saves tend to be lower. but, there is no such skill for not being bluffed, or persuaded, or intimidated. at least that I can think of.

well, just wondering, thanks if anyone can help!

*Summons Fuzz to the thread*

There was this one time in IRC where he named off the proper skill check or save to use in any situation... IG and IRL

skills generaly oppose skills.

Stats generaly oppose stats.

effects generaly oppose saves.

but all above rules get broken.


I believe, though I could be wrong...

Bluff -> bluff
Persuade -> persuade or disipline
intimidate -> concentration or intimidate
taunt -> concentration

On 404 they have the sense motive check. Maybe an addition? Its an easy fallback roll to use to tell if someone is bluffing or not on the matter of saving rolls.

The Sense Motive skill is a real D&D skill. Due to NWN not originally being intended for Persistent Worlds, the designers probably never thought to include one. In D&D, Bluff is always opposed by Sense Motive.

But that's neither here nor there.

- Aeveras

The main point is, that there are no hard and fast rules. If a DM asks you for a check, that's one thing. Otherwise, just roll what feels appropriate to you at the time. Nobody is bound by the results or even required to make a roll.

If there is an appropriate skill I can think of for a situation, I roll it. Sometimes it makes more sense to roll a stat or a save.

Bluff for instance, I don't see why you should be extremely gulible, just because you aren't an accomplished liar yourself. I'd normally roll a will save on the basis that it's something that more experienced characters are likely to see through. Some might roll a stat check. It's really up to you.

Also, unless a DM ask for a roll, feel free to add your own modifiers. If someone starts to make up stories about their fictitious pet dog, I might have no good reason not to believe the lie and impose a small penalty on my roll. If someone stands before me in rags and claims he's the new emporer of Kurathene I'm going to give myself a huge bonus on my roll vs his bluff, assuming I even bother to roll.

Having just asked a similar question myself, I'll share what I have learned so far. Here's the link to the thread also: viewtopic.php?t=36072&highlight=

Bioware broke the Diplomacy skill into two parts: Persuade and Taunt. For use IG and practically speaking it is persuade skill check vs. persuade skill check. (Persuade skill check = 1d20 + Persuade Ranks + Wisdom modifier.) If there is a tie, the person with the highest modifer "wins". If the modifiers are the same, reroll.

Concerning Intimidate: 3.5 rules state the opposed check is a modified character check which is 1d20 + char level + WIS modifer. (The only reason I'm suggesting this instead of doing Intimate vs. intimidate is because if you are a high level character with low ranks in Intimidate the opposed check will be inaccurate. Can you imagine Rhissaerk being intimidated by a lower level char?

3rd Level Char to Rhissaerk: Hand over all your gold! (Rolls 1d20 result 10 + 10 ranks in Intimidate + 5 CHA modifier = 25)
Rhissaerk: ( Rolls 1d20 result 10 + 5 ranks in intimidate + -2 CHA modifier = 13) *eyes narrow* Sssstuipd dice! *Whacks 3rd level char over head with <insert current weapon here>, takes his gold and stomps off.

Concerning Bluff: The NWN engine doesn't incorporate the "sense motive" skill which is part of the opposed check for Bluff in PnP. As was recommended previously, I second the idea of using the Will Save since it incorporates your Wisdom modifier, not your CHA modifer as Bluff vs Bluff would.

Hope this helped