The World of Avlis

I was wondering which one of these skills is better, and to what purposes do the suit at revealing.

I know that when i raised my spot skill it helped me to be able to see my friend that seems to have a interest in pickpocketing me and taking my stuff. She normally gives my stuff back but it really concerned me initially when i had 0 skill points, and what if next time it wasnt someone that gives stuff back. So i cranked it up and now i saw her do it so i un equiped my weapon and punched her a few times cause my past warnings didnt stop her from taking things.

Im under the understanding that spot lets you see people that use the hide in shadows skill. So if this is the case will it keep my Expertise, or power attack skills from turning off if i can get my spot skill high enough to over come a rogues hide in shadows skill.

Ok i realized the other day that i have listen as well for my Prestige class (weapon master) and i havent yet put any points in that skill. Will putting points in both spot and listen, help more then just putting the skill points in one skill and cranking it up all the way to the max.

Listen will allow you to hear people, but no more. You won't be able to identify them by it, whereas spot will allow you to actually see them, what colour their clothing is, their face (If they didn't cover it) and so on. Though, if you fight a PC or NPC who has HiPS (Hide in Plain Sight) no amount of spot will help your power attack or expertise from turning off. You only make one spot check in each round, so that means that they will disappear from view for at least one round until you can see them again if they use the skill while fighting you.

Edit: Listen isn't bad, though, as a lot of sneaky characters have much more trouble getting their Move Silently skill up than they do their hide.

Spot has better results, but listen generally has a far, far higher chance of working. Personally, I'd reccomend listen, although if you can cast True Seeing, spot is better.

Its really not necessary to try and raise both skills up as far as you can.

Why would you recomend listen if you say spot has better results.

Listen will help you hear invisible characters. Spot doesn't help with that at all.

Yeah, I don't think it's an either or. If you want to know what's happening around you I would try for some points in both.

Oh, I guess your topic title assumed we had no listen points, eh?

I took the blind fighting feat way back when. I beleave that lets me see invisible creatures. So i should be covered with that. So that means putting all my points in spot.

Listen is awesome, because it extends the range you can hear whispers in.

downsystem wrote:I took the blind fighting feat way back when. I beleave that lets me see invisible creatures. So i should be covered with that. So that means putting all my points in spot.

Blind Fighting doesn't let you see invivisible creatures, it gives you a reroll on the dice to see if you can hit a creature that is concealed.

Spot is opposed by Hide.
Listen is opposed by Move Silently.

Opposed checks are made each round. If the stealthed character wins both checks, you won't simply won't see them. If your listen beats their move silently, they appear transparent, though like others have mentioned, they can't be identified as per the invisibility rules. If your spot beats their hide, you see them.

There is no "better" skill to raise than the other. A proper sneaky stabby character should be putting ranks into both hide and move silently. Most sneaky items give boosts to Hide, rather than Move Silent though, so a listen check is more likely to reveal a sneaky rogue, whereas a spot check is your only defense against pick-pockets.

One last thing about spotting sneaky rogues: once you succeed at your listen or spot check, they cannot hide again unless they have HiPS, or they turn a corner/transition/get behind a building. You automatically succeed your checks if someone without HiPS goes into stealth mode while you're watching.

- Aeveras

I probably go spot and try to crank that up to max as i can get, since im more worried about someone stealing stuff that took along time to acquire. Then if i need someplace to throw some points ill put them in listen.

Although it was nice to know that listen extends the range of hearing whispers.

Signifigant Owl wrote:Listen will allow you to hear people, but no more. You won't be able to identify them by it, whereas spot will allow you to actually see them, what colour their clothing is, their face (If they didn't cover it) and so on.

How do you know which skill you've succeeded with in NWN, where the results from spot and listen are the same?

Listen will give you a transparent image of the character as I believe was mentioned above, and spot will allow you to see the character normally.

Spot has a better result IF it suceeds, while listen will suceed much, much more. Thus, I'd reccomend listen. It also has the added benefit of letting you know the person is infact sneaking, as opposed to a few times I've suceeded on spot checks and actually didn't know the person was trying to be stealthy...*chuckles*

I've presumed that when I can tell there's an ettercap around a corner it's cause I've heard it. So it appears fuzzy. Never considered that invisibilty rules come in. In fact I just know *something" is there, ie I can't say "I can hear an ettercap". Makes sense now.

Does spot let you see round corners? Maybe peeking around? Or does only listen help with this?

I would go for spot.
I mean you can't hear a secret doorway or a crack in the wall.

I thought listen also helps you out in a dungeon.It let's you see more of the layout of the dungeon for instance, and lety's you "hear" ( acvtually in the nwn engine it shows you) what's on the other side of that door.
Or am I wrong in that?

Also, I thought that if you had a really high spot, and you drank a sight unseen potion ( or someone casts see invisible) on you, you can actually see past HIPS. BUt the spot skill has to be pretty damn high.

Actually secret doors are seen by the search skill, not spot.

First of all, spot won't let you find any secret doors. That function is dealt with by the search skill.

Second of all, as far as Sight Unseen goes, it won't help you a bit against stealthed characters. Sight Unseen gives you See Invisibility; being in stealth mode isn't being invisible (as per the spell), but rather evading notice.

- Aeveras

downsystem wrote:I probably go spot and try to crank that up to max as i can get, since im more worried about someone stealing stuff that took along time to acquire. Then if i need someplace to throw some points ill put them in listen.

Feel free to do this, but I have the feeling that you are worrying to much about this. Pick pocketing items is.. very rare. People don't take stuff from other PC's corpses when those have died out of respect for that player's feeling, the same applies here. I've never noticed anybody losing important items to this. Just my thoughts.

szabot wrote:Listen will help you hear invisible characters. Spot doesn't help with that at all.

Surprisingly, the Listen skill doesn't help in the slightest against invisible creatures. I notice no difference between my character with Listen in the nineties and my character with Listen zero: in my experience an invisible character will only be detected if he gets really close. I could rant about this for a while but i'll just let it go.

As far as game mechanics go and leaving aside the question of identifying the character in stealth, the only difference between Spot and Listen is that if you only hear a stealthed character you won't be able to target him with spells even though you still can attack normally.

mortzestus wrote:

szabot wrote:Listen will help you hear invisible characters. Spot doesn't help with that at all.

the only difference between Spot and Listen is that if you only hear a stealthed character you won't be able to target him with spells even though you still can attack normally.

I not only need to be able to spot thieves but i need to be able to keep experties or power atack up in the midst of battle. Right now i rely on improved expertise alot since acquiring magical items for defensive purposes is not easy. So if bringing up the listen skill wont keep them two feats active when fighting. So If listen doesnt allow me to target a monster so i can put up them feats before i get to them then putting skill points in listen reallly wont help for my purpose.

mortzestus wrote:

szabot wrote:Listen will help you hear invisible characters. Spot doesn't help with that at all.

Surprisingly, the Listen skill doesn't help in the slightest against invisible creatures. I notice no difference between my character with Listen in the nineties and my character with Listen zero: in my experience an invisible character will only be detected if he gets really close. I could rant about this for a while but i'll just let it go.

downsystem wrote:I not only need to be able to spot thieves but i need to be able to keep experties or power atack up in the midst of battle. Right now i rely on improved expertise alot since acquiring magical items for defensive purposes is not easy. So if bringing up the listen skill wont keep them two feats active when fighting. So If listen doesnt allow me to target a monster so i can put up them feats before i get to them then putting skill points in listen reallly wont help for my purpose.

I don't understand what you're talking about. What do spot or listen have to do with expertise or power attack?

Expertise and power attack our feats that you have to turn on when your still or after you are in the process of attacking another already. The skills end after monster is killed or they dissipear to your eyes, and this happens automatically. So i was just trying to figure out which skill (listen or spot) will help keep them on durring the times when you fight a creature thats invisible or one thats dissipeared because of their hide in shadows abilities.