The World of Avlis

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:02 pm**

Simple question, yes or no?

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:05 pm**

They are a challenge.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:06 pm**

no.

getting PWNed in one hit by a PC is bad enough.

when NPCs do it it just seems so pointless

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:07 pm**

Technically, they shouldn't exist other than for named plot NPCs or something like that. That's specifically in the Epic Handbook.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:09 pm**

Don't forget they are meant to represent (nearly) impossible odds.

So if there is an NPC who completly wipes out your whole patrol, maybe that NPC is supposed to represent dozens, or hundreds of equalizers.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:11 pm**

Don't forget they are meant to represent (nearly) impossible odds.

So if there is an NPC who completly wipes out your whole patrol, maybe that NPC is supposed to represent dozens, or hundreds of equalizers.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:13 pm**

Don't forget they are meant to represent (nearly) impossible odds.

So if there is an NPC who completly wipes out your whole patrol, maybe that NPC is supposed to represent dozens, or hundreds of equalizers.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:15 pm**

They're no more fun than dev. crit PC's, but all generic dev. critting NPC's on Avlis are DM spawned if I'm not mistaken.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:18 pm**

They represent places your character shouldn't necesarily be, as well.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:18 pm**

Moredo wrote:They're no more fun than dev. crit PC's, but all generic dev. critting NPC's on Avlis are DM spawned if I'm not mistaken.

check blandenberg they do some kind of weird stuf with their swords

.

I agree with amy that they are there for a purpose.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:19 pm**

Um... sorry about that, I can't delete the posts now because of the replies

So if someone from the team would be so kind to delete this post and the copies of the other ones above, I'd appreciate it

Thank you

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:19 pm**

Moredo wrote:They're no more fun than dev. crit PC's, but all generic dev. critting NPC's on Avlis are DM spawned if I'm not mistaken.

check blandenberg they do some kind of weird stuf with their swords

.

I agree with amy that they are there for a purpose.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:20 pm**

Talwin Hawkins wrote:Simple question, yes or no?

Yes. What, you want you should be able to beat any battle by guzzling heal potions? There are a couple different ways to deal with these things. You can summon something that is immune to critical hits, or you can get a crit-immune PC to melee it.

The only real reason I see to gripe in this case is if most of these methods won't work. For instance, if the dev-critting npc is such a badass that it tears through level 10 Pale Masters using Tenser's Transformation, wipes the floor with elemental-form shifted druids, reduces to scrap casters in Iron Golem form, and utterly slaughters elemental and undead summons, then some designer needs to rethink things a bit. When an NPC with dev-crit faces an CR appropriate PC who is crit immune, the NPC should lose.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:22 pm**

What Fluffy said is right. Due to engine limitations you can't really have hundreds of soldiers guarding a heavily guarded area and attacking you if you mess around. Random dev.critting Equalisers aren't fun, agreed. But they are never random.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:24 pm**

What's really the difference between a dev crit NPC and some twink who spams IKD out of stealth with dev crit? I don't really see one, except that one has to be DM controlled and the other doesn't.

So, no, but as a rule dev-crit isn't fun PERIOD.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:26 pm**

Dev crit is the worst, most overpowering feat and it seriously shouldn't even exist in a multiplayer game.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:27 pm**

to my mind they are no different than basilisks or npcs with death magic. Only difference to npc's with death magic is with dev crit it is much harder (but not impossible) to protect yourself (although AFAIK, there is no protection from petrification either). for dev crit they need to hit you and you get a save. a balanced party can easily take the occasional dev critter down (if prepared at least)

should they be incredibly rare? definately. but should they be used to make a few areas super scary/tough? sure.

I went on a Sandventure to drow caves where the deeper parts all the drow warriors had dev crit. we managed (thanks to Sand but only 2 of us were epic at the time). we cleared a couple dungeon levels of them by using the right tactics. and i don't think anyone died from dev crit - it was high lvl sneak attack archers that got a couple of us.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:33 pm**

er..dev crit is almost impossible to protect yourself from, only epics have even a chance, and 95% even of epics will fail a save within round of combat.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:34 pm**

My first encounter today with those. To tell the truth, I'm not fond of Dev Crit, wether it be PC or NPC. But it does give us sence that we aren't welcome there (Blandenberg). Although, I think 3 or so of high CR Equalizer without Dev Crit would have driven us away just the same.

All in all, I'm fine with DM spawn only Dev Critters.

Also, Dev Crit as static spawn in regular adventure area and Dev Crit spawned in WZ by DM is completely different issue.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:35 pm**

Nightshade wrote:They represent places your character shouldn't necesarily be, as well.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:35 pm**

My own personal opinion is that insta-death abilities of any kind are teh suck. I just don't like them in my roleplaying games, but that's me. Character life/death or NPC life/death is not something I like seeing come down to an opposed dice roll. This has nothing to do with liking/disliking a challenge, I just don't like insta-death abilities for anyone. It cheapens the experience for me.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:36 pm**

*stabs talwin for attempting to raise another dead horse*

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:42 pm**

Arandil wrote:er..dev crit is almost impossible to protect yourself from, only epics have even a chance, and 95% even of epics will fail a save within round of combat.

there is one mage spell that protects you (non epic). Shifter form does it (epic). non epic clerics, druids and mages summon crit immune stuff. of course PM can be immune. rogues can use a scroll to summon something or use the mage spell. particularly vs NPC AI, you can let your summon which is immune go melee and try to waste the dev critter from range (and if it is DM controlled AI well there is probably a good reason you are getting pwned)

now i am not saying its easy, particularly solo, but again it is supposed to represent a serious foe not taken lightly.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:49 pm**

Kieron wrote:
Arandil wrote:er..dev crit is almost impossible to protect yourself from, only epics have even a chance, and 95% even of epics will fail a save within round of combat.
there is one mage spell that protects you (non epic). Shifter form does it (epic). non epic clerics, druids and mages summon crit immune stuff. of course PM can be immune. rogues can use a scroll to summon something or use the mage spell. particularly vs NPC AI, you can let your summon which is immune go melee and try to waste the dev critter from range (and if it is DM controlled AI well there is probably a good reason you are getting pwned)

now i am not saying its easy, particularly solo, but again it is supposed to represent a serious foe not taken lightly.

That is assuming everyone uses the same character builds and tactics, which just doesn't happen.

This is one of those things that will always remain a topic of debate, but as long as it is one of the tools available, expect it to be used.

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:54 pm**

Kieron wrote:(and if it is DM controlled AI well there is probably a good reason you are getting pwned)

The World of Avlis

Are Dev Critting NPCs fun.

Are Dev Critting NPCs fun.

Re: Are Dev Critting NPCs fun.