How long do you think NWN will last?

[Fifty]

Eventually the end comes for al games but NWN looks like it will have a lot more lastability than most.

How long do you think the best persistent worlds such as Avlis will survive and prosper?

[Tangleroot]

Until we get bored. That shouldn't be an immediate concern.

[Xeo]

the one thing that makes NWN special and rare is that you can create and develop anything really you want.

The NWN team seem to upgrade the game and also the tile sets and things you can create.

As long as peoples imaginations stay crisp then it can go on as long as you like.

To me this is the best thing and will take something very very very very very very very very big to even take me away from NWN.... i love this game and also Avlis...... Orl is 99% right i think on his vision...... the other 1%? i have not got a clue as no ones perfect

[Nighthawk4]

the one thing that makes NWN special and rare is that you can create and develop anything really you want.

The NWN team seem to upgrade the game and also the tile sets and things you can create.

As long as peoples imaginations stay crisp then it can go on as long as you like.

To me this is the best thing and will take something very very very very very very very very big to even take me away from NWN.... i love this game and also Avlis...... Orl is 99% right i think on his vision...... the other 1%? i have not got a clue as no ones perfect

Xeo, that is the finest post you have ever made - 100% correct IMHO.

May NWN in general and Avlis in particular go on for a very long time yet.

Life here is awesome - so much better than RL

[KinX]

hehe....the NWN community is still strong, especially the Avlis community.

I don't see it dying anytime soon.

I've got a feeling Avlis will still be going strong a year and beyond from now.

We've only seen a small portion of Avlis so far, there's still Galdos, Kurathene, the Seven Cities etc etc

One thing i've noticed when i look at all the servers in Gamespy is there are hundreds of servers to play in, with new ones coming in every week. NWN in general will die when people get bored of roleplaying in fantasy settings. Bioware have created something that i think will last for years.

[Tangleroot]

People still play MUDS. I don't see NWN, or at least dedicated communities like this dying in a long time.

[Silk]

Avlis is not going anywhere... trust me.
It will, however, evolve.

[anticybr]

NWN in general will die when people get bored of roleplaying in fantasy settings.

http://nwvault.ign.com/features/previews/D20.shtml

Shadowrun, anyone?

[Vergilius]

NWN has a good two years of playability on it. LIke silk said Avlis will evolve. IF we are fortunate, in that two year span, someone will develop another high quality game that allows for custom content on the level of NWN and the world can be built anew on a game platform appropriate for the tech of the time.

[KinX]

NWN has a good two years of playability on it. LIke silk said Avlis will evolve. IF we are fortunate, in that two year span, someone will develop another high quality game that allows for custom content on the level of NWN and the world can be built anew on a game platform appropriate for the tech of the time.

hehe, while everyone would love to see a better version of NWN (or somethign similar) come out. It's the rebuilding the world that might hurt.

[Fuzz]

Just wait till Aurora ultimately goes Open Source (it WILL, DAMMIT!)

You will see a MASSIVE revolution in what the game is and can do.

Until then, it'll still be going strong, as long as you have people that value RP over graphics and bells and whistles... it's ease of use it what has made it so successful, as well as it's continuing support by Bioware. Bioware was a small devel prior to NWN. Now they're a really big powerhouse, (they didn't make the Baldur's Gate games, Black Isles did. Bioware acquired Black Isles and all its licenses) and I highly doubt they will stop supporting NWN anytime soon.

The possibility of a full-fledged sequel is ebateable, however, because they really backed themselves into a corner. Should they make one, they would basically HAVE to make it backward compatibile with everything from NWN, if they wanted to retain their playerbase. That would limit what they can do, as well as cause a lot of coding and streamlining issues with whatever engine they use. There are too many players entrenched in NWN's toolset with existing modules that they could never really release an entirely new game, and hope to have the same success... people just wouldn't convert, because I don't think anyone would want to redesign ALL of their stuff just to take advantage of a newer engine.

NWN will most likely be a one time thing... we may not see anything like it for a long time to come, hence, I think it'll retain a dedicated community that will prolong it's lifespan for at least another 4 or 5 years... hell, people still play Everquest, and that game is a complete piece of shit.

[Vergilius]

A lot of it will depend upon the market in the next few years. If anything is released where players can find 1. quality RP, and 2. state of the art technology, I'm sure it will pull from the player base.

and yes, I agree that rebuilding the world will be a complete pain in the arse, but that comes with the territory of online computer games.

Personally, NWN as a game should last another 2 years as a stellar game, beyond those 2 years, I would guess there would be another 3 of basically what fuzz describes: people who value RP over graphics and the latest technology, and secondarily I might add the ability of a strong community to hold together over a period of time.

Beyond that, we have no idea what the market will do and what games will be developed and released, or how fast technology will advance.

[Talman Kell]

When it comes to RPG's, NWN has been about the most enjoyable I have ever endured. I really hope that the Bioware staff can continue to roll with the puches both technology and consumer bias's have to deliver.

A couple of things could really help NWN over the next year:

1. Graphics could be upgraded. I believe that most people will be getting more advanced graphics peripherals in the next year or so and thus the demand for the upgrade will be there. Most newer computers are coming with atleast a 64bit card now. That is cool. So, this will be something that will definitly help.

2. Develop storylines. I believe that if the Bioware staff can really do some deep storyline development beyond even what SOU or HotU have delivered thus far, NWN will continue to rock the computer gaming RPG worlds face off. Don't ask me how, for I am not a storyline developind dude myself, but I know the plot is always what grabs ya by the throat and will not let go.

But what do I know. I am just a player.

Let us all rejoice now while we still have a cool platform like NWN to base or RPGing from.

Talman

[Tangleroot]

I don't really see a commercial game having the same attaction as NWN/Avlis. NWN allows us to have Avlis, commercial games take in Dewds 'cause they need the money. If by some miracle another game appears that has 1)free playing, no monthly payments 2)good editing options.. but only then.

edit: by those commercial games i mean mmorpg's.. may they rot in hell.

[Pharik]

My ignorance here..as Silk says Avlis isnt going nowhere. But what happens when Gamespy stop supporting NWN? Is it likely? Will it matter?

Ive gone from a 2/3 games per month buyer to er..oh right, I bought Max Payne 2 last month. The first non-NWN related game in over 18 months.

Isnt this hurting them or are we so inconsequential to the market?

[Fuzz]

Gamespy still supports Quake 1... as long as there are servers up for it, Gamespy will support it.

Regardless, you can run an NWN IP server without having to touch Gamespy.

[Malathyre]

NWN will last a while yet. Personally, I still haven't touched the HotU campaign, and I haven't finished the SoU campaign, either. Not to mention the 1000's of modules out there, of which I've played through like 10 or so. It's got a good fanbase in the PW community, not to mention people who play on NWN Connections in weekly campaign style games, and those who log on to servers just to frag and do PvP (the servers that are set up for this, mind you, not RP servers). How long? I don't know. Until the next game comes out that is an RP game, has a decent dice/game mechanics system, isn't TOO buggy (LOL, coders and scripters, you can shoot me now), and lets you goof around with how things work in the game in a relatively facile fashion. So, in other words, it will last just long enough that my character in Avlis will just be hitting epic levels when everyone decides to quit.

[Talman Kell]

Ive gone from a 2/3 games per month buyer to er..oh right, I bought Max Payne 2 last month. The first non-NWN related game in over 18 months.

Isnt this hurting them or are we so inconsequential to the market?

I am not sure if anyone has been paying the marketing strategies of these gaming producers out here or not, but it seems to me that when something really hot hits the the market by one company, all the other companies follow suit in an attempt to pick up some of the market as well. I don't know, but perhaps games like NWN will become even more popular and we will find ourselves buying one new one a month. But I doubt it.

I still know people who think I am the biggest dork for playing RPG's when I could be playing Gotham Racing with them online.
Who is the dork?

Talman

[Jhevon]

Eventually the end comes for al games but NWN looks like it will have a lot more lastability than most

Yes, and no. Aren't there still MUDs out there being played? People usually "upgrade" to the latest games because they have the latest-n-greatest graphics/gameplay/virtual-titties, whatever, don't they? (That's why I used to?)

If you consider that these are in effect "meta-game" aspects, and that the reason many if not most people play on Avlis is for the RP, I'm not sure it need ever die?

To me, Avlis is just the closest thing to PnP that my RL currently allows for, and that fact that it has awesome graphical effects etc (by current standards) is only really a bonus?

Personally, unless there's a son-of-Avlis for it, any new DnD based PC game will just be candy floss. Unless the entire Avlis community agrees on mass to move to the new game platform (a-la the upgrades to SoU and HotU?) then I for one will be sticking with it, even unto old-and-daggyness.

Maybe ...



Jhevon

[Strangg]

MUD's have been around for 20+ years. NWN PW's and those who make might last just as long. Unlike most "games" and like MUD's they are customizable and allow you free reign over your own world. That's what will keep people playing. Maybe one of these days Bioware will be nice and release their server code to the public, then you will see what people like Pap and other geniuses can really do.





~S

[Silk]

My ignorance here..as Silk says Avlis isnt going nowhere. But what happens when Gamespy stop supporting NWN? Is it likely? Will it matter?

Ive gone from a 2/3 games per month buyer to er..oh right, I bought Max Payne 2 last month. The first non-NWN related game in over 18 months.

Isnt this hurting them or are we so inconsequential to the market?

Dude... you're talking to the team that hacked Database access into NWN before bioware did... do you really think the loss of Gamespy support is going to stop us?

[Pekarion]

I've been thinking the same thing. but I promise you, as long as you won't stop I won't either

[Strangg]

My ignorance here..as Silk says Avlis isnt going nowhere. But what happens when Gamespy stop supporting NWN? Is it likely? Will it matter?

Ive gone from a 2/3 games per month buyer to er..oh right, I bought Max Payne 2 last month. The first non-NWN related game in over 18 months.

Isnt this hurting them or are we so inconsequential to the market?

If gamespy blew up tomorrow you would stil be able to connect to Avlis. Only problem is we dont' have any authentication running. However that is only a small matter, as i know of at least one PW that has their very own authentication system based on your public CD key and log in name. It works fine BTW.




~S

[Actually]

I've been having a lot of trouble connecting to the Master Server in the past week or so...

I CAN still log into Avlis when this happens... Sometimes... But half the time it will see the server but never actually connect to it (It shows as live in my history, but comes up as "Unnamed Server" and hangs on the "Attempting to Log In..." message). Or my client will freeze up when I hit the Direct Connect button. Or I'll log into the server, pick a PC, log into the game for 30 seconds, then get booted and told my CD key is still in use.

So, yes it works, but it is not at all ideal.

Bye Now,
Jerry Cornelius -

[Themicles]

This is important to NWN (patches, new content, servers) lasting for some time. If this works out, NWN could end up being supported by BioWare for years to come. If not, the Live team will have to be reassigned to projects that are still making money.

The below is a quote from the NWVault, minorly edited for the formatting of this board (urls inserted, quotes defined, etc)

Please think REAL hard before you flame this.
Remember that for a programmer to make a patch for NWN, he has to be paid to be at work. In order for them to pay him, the money MUST come from somewhere. If its not coming from what he's working on, BioWare is wasting their money. Fact of the matter is, that programmer has to eat. Has to feed a family. If the job he is doing isn't making the money they need to pay him, they are going to reassign him to another project.

Rob Bartel - Co Lead Designer -

Digital Distribution:

What I am willing, maybe even eager, to pay for is upgrades more than actual content. I mostly play online and would like to see repaired the "...numerous broken BioWare scripting fuctions..." as my DM puts it.

So would we. Expansion packs are a very bad economic model when it comes to fixing what's broken. The pressure is extremely high to focus your efforts on all of the new stuff and hit all the new bullet points. As a result, there isn't a lot of time to dig through existing code or underlying design decisions. Digital Distribution, on the other hand, operates at a much lower intensity level and more attention is focused on meeting the needs of our community. I share an office with Craig, our Live Team Programmer, and he's constantly scouring the boards for problems and pet peeves that people are experiencing. He's put some long-awaited fixes into the upcoming 1.62 patch and is looking forward to slowly working his way through the rest of the code and bringing it up to similar levels of polish. Without an ongoing revenue stream of some sort, Craig would probably be moved onto some other project (as I was) to meet the needs there. In other words, by purchasing a module that I may have created, you're not only supporting my position on the Live Team but you're also supporting the entire infrastructure that makes what I do possible (programmers, web developers, artists, etc). You're not just receiving a module, you're also receiving patches, new art content, new functionality, an ongoing board presence, and an invigorated community.

But what I'd really be willing to pay for is for BW to meld the best, most thorough community fixes to existing HotU issues into a single package available for download.

The lawyers' heads implode when we start talking about making direct use of community content or fixes. It's actually kind of fun to broach the topic every now and then (reminds me of playing with darts and balloons at the fairgrounds, actually). So, the bad news is that much of this kind of stuff is going to remain freely available from the community (rough life, huh?). From what I understand, there's some big community content news on the horizon, though, so keep your eyes peeled over the coming weeks.

More:
Thanks to everyone for the ongoing interest in this discussion. We continue to read every post but won't have a whole lot more to contribute until the DD concept is fully negotiated and approved with Atari, et al. So forgive us as we lay low and draw up plans for our mind control lasers.

-Themicles