The World of Avlis

Been in a few HUGE DM events, and they were fun but sometimes there's just too many people, as I see it.
It's hard to have big battles in NWN with the way servers are and lag and such so... I pose the question whats that magical number?
Feel free to vote as I love to hear other opinions.

Right now I feel that when it's just one DM that anything over 7 becomes tough. It's also hard to just have that many people in a party when there's no common thread or leadership. Ends up being a lot of people talking at the same time or people feeling like they aren't doing anything.

When you have a few more DMs involved I think you can do bigger groups but you also end up with lag issues.
I feel that 15 is the magic big number but I also think you can have bigger DMed events but just have them cross servers so that way you can have 15 people per server and try and avoid the lag and such.

In the end it also depends on how many people are in one location and how much stuff is spawned.

I prefer my groups to be around 7.

There is a balance between having everyone contribute and having EVERYONE contribute. I like to be on servers in DM events with between 10-15 players, because then the server doesn't groan under the oppressive weight of five evards tentacle spells.

It depends on the event.

If it's a huge battle royale, like the battle for elysia, or the big finale to the illithid castles plot, the more the better. The chaos and uncontrollable nature of it lends itself to the urgency of the event.

If it's something where a group of people is trying to explore or accomplish something, where there is going to be interaction with NPCs, anything over 10-15 becomes unmanageable and unwieldy.

My favorite moments on Avlis have been a party of 6-10 who are all around the same level, working together towards the same goal, who have RPd together before and are IC comrades. It's the feeling of a true PnP adventuring party, where everyone has a role to play and there is time for each to have their moment in the spotlight over the course of an adventure.

On a whole, both as a player and a DM, I prefer 5 or less. This is the same in PnP. I have found it is just always easier to manage things there. Maybe up to 8 is fine from time to time, but more than that usually just makes it harder to have fun in my opinion. Of course, if I could think fast, type fast and find things in the creator fast, then as DM I would not care if there were 20, but I can't do any of those so I'll stick with around 5.

Scott

I voted by the most fun experiences and they have usually been with less than 8. More than 8 players is like trying to read a book with the radio playing in the backround. It's hard to lose yourself in the story and keep focused. Not to mention the DM can't be having to much fun moving like a one legged man in a kick fight trying to keep up.

With preparation and copy/paste text, I can manage a party of 20+ pretty well. More DMs helps, because it's usually the cookies that suffer when the player volume is that high. Without preparation more than 10 is quite a challenge, and quality begins to depend heavily on how good the PC group leader is.

It really depends on the group, and the server performance at the time, and the goal.

I prefer 5 or less, but 10 or less still makes for a fun event if the players are good at sharing. Many of the most memorable events for me have been a 5/1 - 1/1 ratio, many probably because I was the only one on at the time and they felt sorry for Sher or Bliss talking to themselves. Over 10 and I often feel bad for the juggling DM as well. a story driven event (my fav) generally involves rolls, tells, question etc for the person behind the curtain - a few people at a time isn't too bad, but many can become a cacophony rather fast.

Less than 6 is perfect. It gives everyone in the party room to do their own thing, and play their niche. 20+ you inevitably get people who are mostly AFK, not doing much of anything.

With the caveat that hack and slash events can have as many players as you like, if there's enough enemies.

<6 is pretty consistently more interesting.

I agree with a lot that is being said...


But my favorite has to be the <5 mirroring what Dune said. It has the most PnP feel to it, where everyone seems important and has a purpose. It's much easier to focus on what is going on without distractions and in my time with Avlis, some of the most enjoyable events for myself were the ones tailored towards specific guilds and was generally 4-8 area.

5-7. I like to focus more on characters and their interaction rather than the story/action

Quite aside from the game turning into a slide show when too many people are in one place, some of the most interesting times I've had here are the smaller scale things where everyone involved has an actual role beyond spectator/sword arm. This applies to entire extended plots too, not just single events.

I've also seen some large events where the DM had come up with a really interesting, creative story, only for it to end with most of the people present not understanding what the hell was going on simply because there were too many people all talking at cross purposes.

I take what I can get.

That said, I prefer smaller groups over larger, and story (talking) over action.

Sathsarrion wrote:Quite aside from the game turning into a slide show when too many people are in one place, some of the most interesting times I've had here are the smaller scale things where everyone involved has an actual role beyond spectator/sword arm. This applies to entire extended plots too, not just single events.

I've also seen some large events where the DM had come up with a really interesting, creative story, only for it to end with most of the people present not understanding what the hell was going on simply because there were too many people all talking at cross purposes.

I feel that this has become much better than it used to be. I see a lot more players using the whisper function so they can chat without messing it up for people who try to follow the story. There is always a lot of emotes though.

korak wrote:On a whole, both as a player and a DM, I prefer 5 or less. This is the same in PnP. I have found it is just always easier to manage things there. Maybe up to 8 is fine from time to time, but more than that usually just makes it harder to have fun in my opinion.

I'd agree with that. PnP for me was usually 3-5 players +DM, and (other than the recent TQ/visimontium event) my best times on Avlis have been with ~< 10 PC.

I've always thought there was a tension between wanting to include people and swamping events with PCs. The interface just doesn't let you interact quickly enough (yelling at each other - or specifically enough (ie responding to a particular PC) to appropriately interact, even when the lag / server crash issues don't test everyone's patience. [I know its slightly off the point, but I really wish the avatars displayed a *talking* emote while you were typing in the chat bar...]

I just think back to the days of Jonezie and other DMs roaming a sparsely populated Kuras making NPCs come alive and 'events' just happen, for one, two or three PCs...

Moredo wrote:I feel that this has become much better than it used to be. I see a lot more players using the whisper function so they can chat without messing it up for people who try to follow the story. There is always a lot of emotes though.

I wasn't just talking about all the off-topic conversations. There's also the people fighting to be the centre of attention and steer the whole event. Once things get over a certain size you either get that sort of thing obscuring the story, or the majority of people turning into nothing but spectators, or sometimes both.

NWDuneAuron wrote:Less than 6 is perfect. It gives everyone in the party room to do their own thing, and play their niche. 20+ you inevitably get people who are mostly AFK, not doing much of anything.

With the caveat that hack and slash events can have as many players as you like, if there's enough enemies.

+1

Text based communication does not lend itself well to large group discussions. After a party reaches a certain size I just start to feel that I'm being vaguely rude if I type anything that is not absolutely, unambiguously vital to the progress of whatever it is the group is supposed to be doing. This is fine if the order of the day is KEEL! KEEL! KEEL!, but less so if there are momentous decisions to be made or mysteries to be solved.

This is a hard one, in my opinion it all depends on a mixture of things, the DM, the players concerned and the story line, I have seen some small events fall apart because of one player, and some large events rock no matter how many there are, but all in all I have fun and am happy to take what comes.

It sucks when thigns get large enough to warrant said whispering though.

People whispering makes me want to get RL stabby and log off to read a book. I log int ot play WITH yall not alongside yall but seperately. Gah.

I shoiuld add the same caveat as above: if what you are after is a crump or a penultimate conflict with something, the more the merrier.

Normally, I play at a time where DM events tend to be rare but have recently made an effort to get into some at other times. More than 5 -8 people in it and I'm going to greener pastures. My machine/connection won't handle it for one and I'll also echo what all above have said about big groups. It is just not fun!

The best IG experiences for me have been in the smaller parties. The DM notices what the PC is doing without the Player having to shout about it. Another aspect is that with smaller groups there is likely one Mage or one Rogue. When it comes time for the Ranger to step to the front and help the Party out with her specialized skill is rolls along smoothly, as opposed to having the 6 Rangers step to the front to vie for DM attention.

Although I don't DM in NWN, I have DMed for PnP sessions. I can't imagine trying to guide 10 Players through an enjoyable gaming experience. In actuality, you have 10 PCs along with the 10 Players(20 personalities). The annual DnD Tournament I helped run had parties maxed at 8, and that was like herding cats.

voted 6-8, but i think it scales to the amount of DMs involved. more DMs is good for more players.

At some point you can have 20 DMs and even then, the number of players in the party is too much...
I'm of the 10-12 or less variety. After that it becomes 15-20 people rushing an NPC, or killing everything that charges them before half of the party has time to transition in. Parties get stretched out quite often, due to different transition load times for everyone and small transition points etc.

loki70 wrote:There is a balance between having everyone contribute and having EVERYONE contribute. I like to be on servers in DM events with between 10-15 players, because then the server doesn't groan under the oppressive weight of five evards tentacle spells.

Caveat to this: This is 10-15 players who are all in the same guild, same purpose, whatnot, and not plot whores who are just logging in for xp/loot/notoriety. When the Dragons were active we had 10-15 players in our events, single DM, and everyone had a blast. Once we started mingling with too many other guilds, things would get complicated.

Eklektikos wrote:

NWDuneAuron wrote:Less than 6 is perfect. It gives everyone in the party room to do their own thing, and play their niche. 20+ you inevitably get people who are mostly AFK, not doing much of anything.

With the caveat that hack and slash events can have as many players as you like, if there's enough enemies.

+1

Text based communication does not lend itself well to large group discussions. After a party reaches a certain size I just start to feel that I'm being vaguely rude if I type anything that is not absolutely, unambiguously vital to the progress of whatever it is the group is supposed to be doing. This is fine if the order of the day is KEEL! KEEL! KEEL!, but less so if there are momentous decisions to be made or mysteries to be solved.

+1