The World of Avlis

Do the "automatic <metamagic>" feats stack with one another? For instance, if I have automatic quicken spell and automatic silent spell, will all my spells be both silent and quickened? If anyone has experience with any of the epic automatic metamagic feats, please inform me about the mechanics. I was thinking of getting the automatic silent spell feats somewhere down the line so I could justify spellcasting in a form that does not have vocal chords On that same note, I'd prefer not to have to sacrifice automatic quicken spell because it's amazing.

Show me a build where its possible to get all the feats and prerequisite feats at once, and then we'll see.

Any wizard that doesn't go too crazy on the epic spells and epic spell foci.

maxinion wrote:Any wizard that doesn't go too crazy on the epic spells and epic spell foci.

Dammit max you beat me to it!

But yeah choose, spell foci or epic spells...or the required feats for auto quicken and silent

But those are the best parts about being a wizard! T_T

Hell, with a wizard you've still got a couple of epic feats to burn on epic spells / spell focii at levels 21 and 27, since you'll be just short of the spellcraft rank requirements for the auto-metamagics at those points.

Yeah, as long as you don't go too crazy, like I said, its doable. Enough for EMA and ESF in one school, which is probably all you *really* need.

maxinion wrote:Yeah, as long as you don't go too crazy, like I said, its doable. Enough for EMA and ESF in one school, which is probably all you *really* need.

Also you'd want to be a Red Mage. No other Order would do.

(OK maybe the other 8 orders would work...but come on. Nothing rolls off of the tongue like RED MAGE!)

Flenken Jolliemausch wrote:(OK maybe the other 8 orders would work...but come on. Nothing rolls off of the tongue like RED MAGE!)

Black Mage.

I rest my case.

Battlemage is even better.

So... as entertaining as reading all those posts was... I don't think I really understood any of it (I haven't played nwn in a long time, all those acronyms went over my head). It sounded like you were saying it is impossible to get automatic quicken spell and automatic silent spell simultaneously because of feat limitations?

Or were you saying that no one gets the automatic metamagic feats because they aren't worth it? I'm a druid, by the way. I didn't plan out a build super hardcore, but with feats every three levels and epic feats every four levels I didn't think it looked too hard to get the requirements.

How does metamagic work? Do you need to still mark the spell as silent when you put it in the spell slot to memorize? Or are all your spells that you cast just silent forever and it is impossible to cast a spell regularly anymore?

It is possible to have both, but you have to choose which path you want to go

Epic Spells and Epic Spell Focus
OR
Auto Quicken and Auto Silent

Why do I need epic spell focus? Do druids even get the epic spells? I thought they were for arcane casters?

The original questions still stand also:
1) When I get automatic metamagic, are all spells automatically silent/quickened/etc or do I still need to say I want them to be different?
2) Do the different automatic metamagics stack? If I get auto quicken and auto silent, are all my spells passively both types?

as far as i can tell, i just made a wizard on an offlien module and i managed to get auto silent spell III and auto quicken spell III and have epic warding epic mage armour the other epic spell like ruined or whatever its called, and greater spell penitration and greater combat casting, and extend spell and empower spell and maximise spell feats, if your a pure wizard there no reason you cant have all these feats, druids? no idea but the auto silent and auto quicken both worked for empowered spells that were at 8th level. oh he also had 4 levels of rouge as hsi first 4 levels and managed to max open lock get a umd of 35 and a tuble of 20, the character really rocked tbh...

Opodomus wrote:Why do I need epic spell focus? Do druids even get the epic spells? I thought they were for arcane casters?

The original questions still stand also:
1) When I get automatic metamagic, are all spells automatically silent/quickened/etc or do I still need to say I want them to be different?
2) Do the different automatic metamagics stack? If I get auto quicken and auto silent, are all my spells passively both types?

http://wiki.avlis.org/Druid A lot of useful information here on druids, I suggest checking it out.

Epic spell focus doesn't have anything to do with epic spells. Epic spell focus is a spell focus that is epic, not a focus in epic spells. Druids do, however, get epic spells; just not all of them are available to them. (Epic warding and Epic mage armor are 2 that come to mind).

1) Automatic metamagic will automatically be applied appropriately. (Automatic Still I affects spell levels 1-3, II affects 4-6, and III affects 7-9)

2) Yeah, you can get autoquicken and autostill, and your spells will now be automatically quickened and still.

Automatic really is automatic, and it should still stack.

The big problem is that you *will* be crunched for feats as a druid if you want both those paths. The prerequirements for them are obviously Still Spell and Quicken Spell, so that's two normal feats; on top of that you need 3 feats each for the auto's once you're epic level and have high enough spellcraft to take them, so that's another 6. You don't really have that many epic feats to choose from, so while this is possible, it'll be... hard.

Epic Spell Focus (and all spell focus things in general) make your spell DC's higher-- basically, they make your spells harder to resist. Quickened and silent spells are cool and all, but if everyone is just shrugging off your spells and taking half damage here, no damage there... there's no point. You choose a spell focus in a school, and the spells of that school become harder to resist. If you're planning on doing both of the auto-routes, you'll only have room for 1 epic spell focus at most, so that'll limit your spell choices a bit.

Finally, all real spellcasting classes (bards don't count), iirc, get all epic spells. So you'd be giving up fun things like Hellball and Ruin and Dragonknight for your auto-path, which is again a debatable point.

Finally, a druid should correct me, but I thought you couldn't cast when polymorphed?

maxinion wrote:Finally, all real spellcasting classes (bards don't count), iirc, get all epic spells.

Only Wizards and Sorcs get EMA and Epic Warding.

maxinion wrote:Finally, a druid should correct me, but I thought you couldn't cast when polymorphed?

You can't

I can't cast when shifted via druid ability, but I can when I take the shape of something as a changeling

Correct me if I am wrong, but items with haste on them do not exist on this server, am I right? So wouldn't automatic quicken spell be something that any caster would want? Or does everyone have haste cast on them before any big fight?

Maybe I should just abandon all thoughts of offensive spell casting and be only a buffer and healer who also transforms into something that melees. Druid shapeshifts are reasonably powerful aren't they? On other servers they end up being useless since everyone gets crazy magical items. I was hoping this "low magic" server would have shapeshifts be a viable thing.

Mainly what I want to do is develop my pet, I think I'll start a new thread with questions on that in a different forum...

Buffer + pet, shapeshifter, and pure offensive magic are all very good druid builds. You just have to pick one and focus on it if you want to be ~really~ good at that particular aspect; if you follow multiple paths, you'll have more variety, but obviously you'll be weaker at each individual trait.

Haste is a level 3 spell. When extended for an epic mage, it can last minutes. You can cast 6+ extended hastes a day. With all that being said, do you *really* need to burn 4 feats for aq3, especially considering that haste gives you +4 ac and fast movement, so you'll probably be casting it anyway? Likely not. But as someone who's character just got AQ3 (I believe there are only 1 or 2 active players with that nowadays), I love the advantage it gives me in duels, the rp that went into it, etc. Its not OMGBROKENAMAZING, but I don't regret for a minute throwing 4 feats into it.

Opodomus wrote:I can't cast when shifted via druid ability, but I can when I take the shape of something as a changeling

Correct me if I am wrong, but items with haste on them do not exist on this server, am I right? So wouldn't automatic quicken spell be something that any caster would want? Or does everyone have haste cast on them before any big fight?

Maybe I should just abandon all thoughts of offensive spell casting and be only a buffer and healer who also transforms into something that melees. Druid shapeshifts are reasonably powerful aren't they? On other servers they end up being useless since everyone gets crazy magical items. I was hoping this "low magic" server would have shapeshifts be a viable thing.

Haste is not a Druid spell, so Quicken can be useful to you. Haste items do exist on the server in very small quantities, but you won't be able to get one. One of the fun things about CoPaP. I think you'll find Shifter forms to be pretty powerful. Maybe not the elemental and animal forms of Druid, but I don't know. Dragon would probably be good too, but it's best to ask someone that plays one.